MIDI Kinetics Forum

Hey everyone,

I am a newbie and out of respect of trying not to be a nuisance I really hope this question hasn't been hashed to death already, although can't seem to find ANY information on the subject.

Can anyone tell me if there's a way to connect Lemur to Pro Tools (v10, Mac, Black Lion Mod 002 rack) to control faders, pan, plugins, etc?

I've tried everything i can find, including adding OSCulator software to the chain, as well as downloading the old CS-10 controller driver, and using the old MIDI mapping (IE: midi chan 16, faders are cc 64-71, etc) from the "pro tools midi control surfaces guide", to no avail. I believe I'm also taking the right steps in Pro Tools to set up the MIDI input device, as well as setup > peripherals .

I can't seem to find any forums here that talk about Pro Tools with lemur which makes me think I'm either stupidly missing something basic and no one is having this issue, or that its common knowledge that Lemur can't control Pro Tools as a control surface (which I find hard to believe since lemur seems like it can do anything and there are other apps that can control Pro Tools via HUI such as "v-control").

If anyone has any information on this matter it would be GREATLY appreciated. Midi control over MIDI instruments, parameters, etc has been extremely easy to setup and operate, just not control over pro tools control parameters directly.

Thank you so much for your time and advice!!

I cannot guide you as I do not use Pro Tools - I can only re-assure you untill someone who does use it replies (I do recall some forum topics, so better wait a bit for more replies), that your hard earned money buying Lemur wont go wasted - there is no problem whatsoever - what can be midi controlled, Lemur can control it, and most of the times, better than any other midi controller.

Softcore wrote:I cannot guide you as I do not use Pro Tools - I can only re-assure you untill someone who does use it replies (I do recall some forum topics, so better wait a bit for more replies), that your hard earned money buying Lemur wont go wasted - there is no problem whatsoever - what can be midi controlled, Lemur can control it, and most of the times, better than any other midi controller.

This re-assurance really means a lot. Truthfully I was I bit worried as I've been banging my head against the wall for the last week trying everything I knew to try before posting here. At the start of the week I made a basic template to control NI's Absynth. It went great until I added Absynth onto an Pro Tools audio track as an effect and the controls stopped working. That led me to trying to control Pro Tools parameters and the downward spiral began. I found a video of a guy controlling a pro tools fader with a wii remote which gave me hope, but I was unable to contact him, or find any additional information.

If / when I finally understand how to do this, I think I'll make an instructional video since non exists to assist the other Pro Tools / Lemur users.

Thanks again

like Softcore I'm also not familiar with ProTools, how controllers are set up there. But any general tutorial for MIDI control or that particular section of the manual will guide you. What I can say, regarding the Absynth experience, is that in standalone mode you're able to send (and receive) MIDI data to the synth directly, while in plugin mode inside ProTools MIDI has to go through the host's MIDI system. In Cubase it is very well implemented, softsynths can be controlled fine, with parameter feedback. It takes some time to set it up, but after that it is very flexible. How this is done in other DAW's I don't know much. Only that it used to be not very well implemented. Maybe this has changed, but so far I haven't heard or seen anything in that direction. Plugin MIDI/OSC control is - strange to me - still not very common it seems.

What you can try is one of the Mackie Control Lemur templates from the user library, and set up a Mackie Control surface in PT. They're bound to the Mackie Control protocol, you can't add own elements, but at least you have some basic functions for the Mixer and limited plugin control with the 8 encoders.

If you want, you can post a link to the user manual of your PT version, and I can have a look.

@ Phil999:

Thank you so much for your input. I realize now how my last comment may have been misleading. To clarify, I have lemur controlling MIDI instruments and samplers within pro tools just fine (on midi & instrument tracks). I originally had two issues, the first of which was if I tried to use something as an effect using an insert on an AUDIO TRACK it wouldn't work (which I figured out last night, and fixed by creating a new MIDI track in pro tools, which receives the MIDI data from Lemur and Targets it towards the input of the plugin on the audio track. Which was a "duh!" moment for me, cause I should have known....)

So now I'm left with the 2nd and main issue which is control over Pro Tools faders, pans, audio plugins, etc. To this in Pro Tools, you need a control surface that uses a MIDI protocol thats compatible with Pro Tools. By default pro tools offers 5 options to select from: Command8, HUI, MotorMix, SurroundPanner & M-Audio Keyboard. Back with Pro Tools 8, there was a known work around where you could download the old JL Cooper CS-10 protocol from Avid's website, then using the documentation on Page 78 of the "Pro Tools MIDI control surface guide" ( http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/d ... _25939.pdf ) you could program the output of each object created in lemur to the correct CS-10 protocol, and set protools control input to the CS-10 protocol and it would work. Problem is Pro Tools 10 & 11 no longer recognize the CS-10 protocol......BUMMER!!!

So like you mentioned, I may be able to use the Mackie Control Template, which uses the HUI MIDI protocol (IF pro tools will recognize it! arg!!!), but (greedily) I'd like to be able to create an amazing Pro Tools template which could control Pro Tools, as well as MIDI instruments and parameters, and like you mentioned you can't add your own elements and functionality to the Mackie template cause its bound.

Isn't there a way to create a Lemur Template, then make 8 faders and assign their outputs (through their own MIDI or OSC channel) to the proper HUI protocol for protools fader control, then using a different MIDI or OSC channel, create buttons, faders , Multiballs, etc. to control MIDI instruments and parameters all from the same Lemur Template? Or do I have to choose between controlling Pro Tools or controlling MIDI instruments / parameters?

I know this is a Pro Tools issue and not Liines fault. I believe in flexibility of Lemur so much that I can't fathom there not being a way of doing this.....

Thanks so much for your input and time!!!!

Pro Tools 10 manual : http://akmedia.digidesign.com/support/d ... _73478.pdf
page 145

I'm also interested in this as I have people asking me about it all the time. I have wasted whole days looking for ways to do this but it appears this functionality does not exist in Protools. If someone has figured out a way to do this, please let us know.
Thanks!
MOH

midimockup wrote:I'm also interested in this as I have people asking me about it all the time. I have wasted whole days looking for ways to do this but it appears this functionality does not exist in Protools. If someone has figured out a way to do this, please let us know.
Thanks!
MOH

SAME!!!!!! I've nearly waisted an entire week. I really just need one example of how to do it!

I have made an interesting discovery though. Just yesterday I found that routing objects to cc64-71 on MIDI channel 1, will control the 8 pan knobs via HUI protocol (using OSCulator software). But after testing all 127 cc on all 16 midi channels, NOTHING controlled ANYTHING else. Just panning, just on cc64-71. I'm still a newbie so I'm not sure what this means.....

Speaking of being a newbie, I did find some documents (below) that were script based, but I'm not sure if its what I'm looking for since I'm still learning scripting...I'm thinking of getting a tutor.
Obviously the first step would be learning scripting, I just want to figure out how to connect first (if possible) so that while I script I can be testing the functionality....maybe thats dumb. I'm open to advice.

The first document I found on HUI protocol (which is what I believe you'd have to adhere to in order to script for Pro Tools) referred to "zones". It was made by a Reaper user but I thought it may be of some help.....i don't know.
http://stash.reaper.fm/12337/HUIZONES.txt

The second document seems MUCH more profound. I'm just not sure how it ties in....maybe someone can explain?
Click below and then download the VERY FIRST LINK:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=101328

Thanks guys!!!

Nothing can stop you from creating a template, having two distinct seperate (or more) tabs, one based on the Mackie protocol for controlling Pro Tools' native parameters and the rest of the tabs featuring XYpads and whatnot for controlling plug ins. You can even use different Lemur targets so that Pro Tools will "think" they deal with different alltogether controllers - so you canply different settings to each.

Actually I already have made a working Mackie emulation for Cakewalk's Sonar....If there's high demand and no Mackie emulation for Pro Tools I believe I can easily work on one (after finishing smthing Im making right now) if I can have your help in testing it because I dont have Pro Tools to check it.

Softcore wrote:Actually I already have made a working Mackie emulation for Cakewalk's Sonar....If there's high demand and no Mackie emulation for Pro Tools I believe I can easily work on one (after finishing smthing Im making right now) if I can have your help in testing it because I dont have Pro Tools to check it.

That would be incredible! Of course I'd help in any way I could! Just contact me whenever you think you might have the time.

Thanks!