MIDI Kinetics Forum

Just some thoughts I had following the creation of my Serato template and it's impending port Traktor...
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Redefining the mobile DJ: walking away from the booth.

Following the launch of my Lemur Template, Traxus Scratch Live, which effectively allows you to control Serato Scratch Live from an Ipad through the Lemur app, I’ve been thinking a lot about the iPad as a DJ control surface. Right now, the Traxus Scratch Live template can effectively replace turntables using time code, or other midi controllers that deal with platter control and of course, looping and EFX. So, if for nothing more than a mental exercise, let’s explore what it would take to go completely mobile, and leave the DJ booth behind. We’ve got the ability to manipulate and beat match songs, but now we need to kill the volume on the incoming track, as well as send its signal to a pair of headphones that are being fed wireless audio.

Spare any latency issues with the streaming of the audio signal, mixer controls are as simple as mapping to Traktor’s built in faders and EQ. However, Serato does not offer these features. This could be worked around by feeding the outputs from the Serato Box into the inputs of a second internal sound card that were wired into channels in Ableton Live that each had their own EQ’s (and other effects as desired). You could then wire one stereo out into your mains, and another into a wireless transmitter by which you could cue remotely. If you’re a wiz with the Bridge (if such a thing exists) you also open up a whole world with regards to taking samples into live from the currently playing track… After wiring together this not so simple setup, you could do some simple template building and midi mapping to effectively build a 2 to 4 channel mixer with faders , cue buttons, and EQ’s, therefore addressing our two most obvious problems: cueing up and mixing in the tracks. The choke point however, is that we still need a way to select them.

What none of the major players offer at this time is the ability to remotely navigate your library and select which track you’d like to load prior to cuing it up. Sure, you can midi map the navigation and loading/unloading controls but that still ties you to a monitor, and therefore a laptop. At best, I suppose you could rig up a big screen or projector however there is a lot to be considered about whether you’d mind the crowd to see everything that’s going on, or prefer to evade the trainspotters. Ideally one of the major players would provide some kind of stream for the meta data of the tracks currently being browsed, perhaps over OSC in the manner that livecontrol for TouchOSC has managed to dynamically send the clip names to the iPad.

Admittedly, this is a bit of a pipe dream at the moment, and may be a race against the clock as tablets and laptops approach singularity. With increased presence and processing power, it becomes more feasible to believe that fully fledged touch screen dj software may be introduced for these devices somewhat negating the need for full remote control. Nevertheless, there is still the case for artists whom are pushing the envelope and using a composite of several software in their performance wanting simpler means of more centralized control (which is one of the finer points of touch screen midi /osc apps). Add to this that APIs are the way of the future, as proved by max for live which has expanded Ableton’s potential by unforetold amounts, it seems only natural that one of the major DJ software companies should also move in that direction (or that a new player should evolve to fill the void).

So, where does that leave us? Well, when adding mixer controls Traxus Scratch Live, we are in a position where we could potentially DJ from the dance floor, so long as we are willing to stream our monitor’s feed to a publicly visible place. There are of course sacrifices, inevitable latency issues are the first that come to mind. If present, the video latency shouldn’t be a choke point, so long as the performer is skilled enough to mix by ear, so the primary concern is the latency of whatever we are using to stream wireless audio. Given the technology that exists for feeding singers live monitoring (of which I am admittedly uninformed on the finer workings), it seems that negligible latency is a reasonable expectation.

To what means? As a turntable native, I’m a bit apprehensive to leave my 1200’s in the dust. I initially developed the template with the idea of using it in tandem with my decks in a 4 deck environment. I was never a fan of CD decks or other wired midi controllers, but the unmatched flexibility of lemur (and honestly, the Star Trek aesthetics) hooked me, and the notion of complete mobility has inspired further interest. Imagine hosting a house party, the last thing any host wants to do is ignore their guests, and sitting behind the decks all night might not be the most social move (fact: in Detroit it is a sin to have more than 8 people over and *not* have a live DJ). Now, envision working the room while carrying an iPad and a pair of headphones and perhaps you can start to see the benefits of added mobility.

[quote="Traxus"]
Now, envision working the room while carrying an iPad and a pair of headphones and perhaps you can start to see the benefits of added mobility.
[/quote]

I just vomited a little into my mouth . . . it's okay though, I managed to swallow it down before any social embarassment occurred.

don't know what you mean, Joe . . .

I'm not a DJ (in my youth I was for a short time, but for dark wave music), and sometimes I do walk around with an iPad and wireless headphones. Or rather, have the iPad attached on a mic stand and control the DAW while tracking. It's a new freedom being able to control and monitor a recording while holding the instrument or sitting at the drum kit, away from the computer. Much more convenient than before where I had to use long USB cables for the audio interface and headphone output, and the AlphaTrack controller, and still had to get up often to watch the computer screen.

Another use of iPads or iPhones is that you can include the audience into the process of music creation. Everybody can shake an iPhone and generate notes (using Shake MIDI), or play with intuitive Lemur templates like Lemurized Spacedrone MOD. I as the engineer only have to set the right targets, which I can switch with my iPad as well, and let some people from the audience contribute to the music. This is fun, and already lead to long improvised sessions.

Indeed I'm no more glued to my DAW like before, or on a leash with short cables, I can move around and enjoy music production in a new fashion.

Joe Soap wrote:
I just vomited a little into my mouth . . . it's okay though, I managed to swallow it down before any social embarassment occurred.

Lol, come now. Honestly man I've been through this discussion for so many different mediums so many times. I'm sure people we're throwing up in their mouths back in the mid 60's when Jeff Dexter suddenly started using 2 turntables at a party while other jocks were still using one. Or when Francis Grasso used two decks, and shopped with a metronome to find songs that were the same tempo. Or when Kool Herc got ahold of a pair of 1100s that had the pitch dots so he could drag the platter and more accurately match the tempos. Or when they put the pitch faders on the 1200's after everyone got sort of good at dragging the platters. Or when they put bpm counters on mixers so people could set the pitch faders better. Or when Digital Vynil systems came out that showed you the wave forms (some people are still slipping in their vomit about that). Why NOT push the envelope?

The same debate has been raging in the photography community for years, its a bizarre xenophobia that completely ignores the path traveled to arrive at whichever particular point is being clung to.

The added mobility has all kinds of implications, such as at a house party or while warming up a dead room... Plus it just sound fun.

If you want to equate prancing about the room with your iPad to those technical innovations, feel free hoss!

After all, it's all about freedom.

I love the freedom of continuing the flow when I must, perchance, visit the throneroom. Otherwise, I'll be at the bar. <-- Genuinely Useful

"Hay gurlz . . . check out my equipment! Thaaa fkn moves on me, whaa?" <-- Keytars, D-Beams . . . Superstar DJ Cruciform Poses And Other Assorted F*uckwittery.

Now, if you'll excuse me I've got to go practice my MIDI saxophone, while watching Jean Michel Jarre wow the crowd, as he MAKES MUSIC WITH FRIKKEN LASERS!!!

Joe Soap wrote:If you want to equate prancing about the room with your iPad to those technical innovations, feel free hoss!

After all, it's all about freedom.

I mean, sure, I guess you could prance?..if you felt like it? Or perhaps stand discreetly? Or something in between? I mean I get it, prancing is funnier, because its gayer. But what if it were a gay club? Lets be honest, historically, most of the best clubs are at least a little gay. I sort of left the whole prancing vs. standing in the corner dichotomy un-discussed. It seemed rather irrelevant to the bigger picture I was exploring. Seems like a matter of taste.

Joe Soap wrote: I love the freedom of continuing the flow when I must, perchance, visit the throneroom. Otherwise, I'll be at the bar. <-- Genuinely Useful

So like, when someone else convinces you it's okay to do something, and still feel cool to yourself about it? Having your amp feedback was garbage until Hendrix came around. The bar sounds like a good place to play from, mind you beatmatching by ear after a night of drinking can be tough if you're the least bit out of practice.

Joe Soap wrote: "Hay gurlz . . . check out my equipment! Thaaa fkn moves on me, whaa?" <-- Keytars, D-Beams . . . Superstar DJ Cruciform Poses And Other Assorted F*uckwittery.

Now, if you'll excuse me I've got to go practice my MIDI saxophone, while watching Jean Michel Jarre wow the crowd, as he MAKES MUSIC WITH FRIKKEN LASERS!!!

Just because it hasn't been done correctly, doesn't mean that it cannot be done correctly. I don't see this as a reason to sit around and wait for someone else to invent the wheel for me. Why on earth would we be on a forum were you basically get to build your own midi controller without the cash investment in hardware bits if that were any of our mantras?

No . . . prancing about as in like a prat.

We've had the ability to go perform in the audience for a long time now BTW. You're not Hendrix.

Joe Soap wrote:No . . . prancing about as in like a prat.

Ah, forgive me. You can imagine yourself prancing around as a prat in aforementioned scenario, and therefore shy away from the idea of it. As I eluded to earlier, I opt to imagine myself doing something quite a bit more discreet were such a situation to come to fruition. I appreciate the concern though, thoughtful.

Joe Soap wrote: You're not Hendrix.

Never said I was. I don't even play guitar. I was drawing an analogy to new techniques and mediums being formed out of previously un-tapped resources.

Joe Soap wrote: We've had the ability to go perform in the audience for a long time now BTW.

This is debatable, especially as to whether it has been done right. Can we discuss as adults, or should we continue to ping backhanded insults through the internet? To what are you referring? I don't see where this really becomes feasible until Touch OSC (later smothered by lemur) came around a few years ago?

Sure.

I guess I'm saying I think having wireless controller devices is very cool from an engineering and setup perspective, like Phil mentioned, and at smaller parties (real DJ mandatory, like you said) you can get out and mingle with your friends etc.

This is all great, a subtle revolution for live sound and how bands that give a damn can exploit that. And so on.

But the idea of the device itself in present form forming part of the performance, or that leaving the stage / booth be a "thing" (prancing optional) . . . well. Nah. Not so much.

And as for being able to perform in the audience for a long time . . . actors, singers and other artists etc been doing it for thousands of years. DJing using OSC over WiFi really doesn't add as much novelty or innovation as you seem to think, IMO.

But then, I think people who self-describe as Controllerists are a Bunch Of Knobbers, so that might help explain where I'm at.

But look, you said it - matter of taste (and opinion) and I wish to the FSM I hadn't got into it at all now!

Joe Soap wrote:Sure.

I guess I'm saying I think having wireless controller devices is very cool from an engineering and setup perspective, like Phil mentioned, and at smaller parties (real DJ mandatory, like you said) you can get out and mingle with your friends etc.

This is all great, a subtle revolution for live sound and how bands that give a damn can exploit that. And so on.

But the idea of the device itself in present form forming part of the performance, or that leaving the stage / booth be a "thing" (prancing optional) . . . well. Nah. Not so much.

And as for being able to perform in the audience for a long time . . . actors, singers and other artists etc been doing it for thousands of years. DJing using OSC over WiFi really doesn't add as much novelty or innovation as you seem to think, IMO.

But then, I think people who self-describe as Controllerists are a Bunch Of Knobbers, so that might help explain where I'm at.

But look, you said it - matter of taste (and opinion) and I wish to the FSM I hadn't got into it at all now!

I'm really not a fan of his music, nor is knack for getting just about butt ass naked (maybe if he were a good looking she) by the end of his set, but it always caught my eye that Girl Talk lets the crowd flood his stage whenever possible. The crowd seems to get really in to it, although there is a discussion to be had about how much of their enjoyment comes from being on said stage, sort of like how the $500 VIP area is cooler strictly because its supposed to be cooler.

I could see something like I've proposed working for a crowd of up to 200 people, so long as they were decently well behaved. Anything beyond that starts to border on a logistical nightmare where you'd probably need a bouncer to babysit you as to keep drunks and drinks off of yourself and your gear, I'd rather prance if that's what it took. We've got a pretty tight knit scene in Detroit, bad behavior wouldn't be a problem (we're pretty good about chasing off the glow in the dark hula hoops and keeping the newbies from crashing into the needles); however we can sometimes be resilient to new ideas. The whole grumblings about digital vinyl systems is just now starting to subside. The way I see it, all but a select few of us are still just playing someone else's music. Granted, some of us are far better at it than others, I'm still interested in exploring ideas that blurs the line between the DJ and the crowd, as well as things that might re-define this interaction.

Awhile ago in an interview, Hawtin spoke/pipe dreamed of someday having a setup where the audience could upload stems to a server by which he could sift through and create (and *cough* steal *cough*) the set on the fly with the crowd. On a similar note, I recently thought about what it might take to build a voting system, by which the audience could look through a library and up vote the next track to be played. This sprung out of the inability to browse the library remotely, and is certainly a terribly over complicated fix to the issue, but I find the interactivity appealing, for science if nothing else.

I've also toyed with the idea of Mixing in 5.1, which has been done before, and done successfully, but being in the middle of the floor completely eases the monitoring process. I'm hoping to build a template that uses a multiball to position the X/Y of 4 different tracks, and then maybe kick the physics in to get the sounds breathing from corner to corner and so forth. I know technically, you only need 2 speakers (2 ears), but that doesn't really account for people who are not dead center. I guess I see more to it than the pure novelty of showing off in the middle of the floor.

On a side note, traktor just released their IOS app today. I got excited for a moment, but it turns out to be a stand alone app (they almost got it right) that has to be tied down to an Audio interface to get proper stereo monitoring and output. Never the less I plan to purchase it as soon as I get home:

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... raktor-dj/