commercial templates bad for the community?

[Joe Soap]

I must have missed the part where Liine suggested they wished to attract commercial developers to the platform.

[artsUNMUTED]

@m127

you are too narrow-minded to differentiate between "being inspired" and "copycating". But I do agree that sometimes the borderline is blurry. Yesterday I did take time to analyze the available resources for chord generating and the solutions already present in user-base libraries and if I follow your logic I would came to the conclusion that enChord is a 100% copy cat and there is NOTHING innovative in it. The concepts and solution was already present:

1. It seems that enChord copies many solutions/logic implemented much earlier in Synleor plugin for example. I mean: suggestion system, magnetic notes, scale degrees, etc. And Synleor seems to be much more advanced in terms of harmony rules and theory.

2. The bank system or parameter recall was available in free user base or free premium templates long before enChord appeared - you can find them in Jay's and AB's free templates.

3. Most (if not all) GUI scripting solutions used in enChord have already been present in available Lemur projects.

4. Here are the names of already existing chord solutions with "chord": chorder, chorderator, midichord, chord, chord! Is enChord original? Even from linguistic perspective? By no means - it is derived from the verb "chord" plus prefix "en" - just a standard word formation process. Originality comes from it being a verb - there aren't many products that have a verb as a name (and it is for a reason).

So it seems that the developer took already existing ideas and compiled into Lemur script and threatened to sue everyone who will copy his work. Which part? Bank system - already present, logic and methodology - already present, GUI solutions - already present. So following your logic - enChord is a shameless copycat.

However, we can also say enChord was inspired by the things I have already mentioned and combined/optimized them into a new product.

And my rC was also inspired - but not by enChord - I haven't even watched the complete video until yesterday. It was inspired by Tonespace chorder - is it a copy? - by no means. I was inspired by Korg Oasys I used to love and cherish - it had pads that could store the keys pressed on the keyboard - does rC copy that? - by no means - in fact it can't do this. Is the name "reCHORDER" a copycat - it was inspired by "recorder" as an instrument or device - you don't have to have a PhD in applied linguistics to see that.

To prove that I am a thief you should:

- prove I used code (hacks as you call it) from enChord
- show a single GUI concept/item I have copied from enChord (and which is unique to enChord)
- prove the concept is actually based on enChord.

If you can't, there is a legal term for what you are doing "slander" and you are a lier and slanderer.

Inspiration is the driving force of all humans - we are all inspired - first of all by creation (or nature as many say), other people and things they make. Lemur is not different in that respect - mainly what Lemur users do is to transfer solutions from other platforms and innovate on them within Lemur limitations. Or perhaps you are a ominous demigod (however, your claims surely point at that - you can examine Lemur projects remotely without even opening them and label them as "hacks" - that is surely a superhuman ability) and your projects are totally out of this world.

[mat]

Hey all,

watching this thread again after a while make me feel ashamed... I mean, whats wrong with (some) of you? Dont you got anything else to do than jak-jak on the internet? Come down a bit...
However, thanks to all who respect my work and that I charge money for my masterpeace.
SequencomatV3 (full) is not compareable to all that iPad Apps. I know it, cause I do have all of them. Some of them match my (always free) V1, most tiny 99cent Apps fail even sync. Nice toys, but no tools. I wonder myself - but full V3 is still the most complex touchscreen sequencer available at all. There is Numerology - only on Mac - which is a beast I accept as competition - and guess what, prices even higher. However...nobody needs to buy. I only want satisfied users...and till now I only got.
Not sure if it was a joke from m127 to release SequenZomat for free. Just to say it: Lite version is open source, I even commented most parts, so I would appreciate others developing further and share.... (released CC, non commercial) but full license is not open in that way. Not allowed to share! Each individual patch got its own code parts... so if a user upload it to sharing plattform I can proof who was it and due to the lawyer I contacted in the beginning it is quite possible to get him pay for each download... hopefully that will never happen. But if, I will put lots of money on lawyers just to get this guy... I am a nice and friendly person, but if anyone fucks my baby I can turn really bad.
That said, I am out gain to the beach...

mat

[m127]

To prove that I am

I don't have to prove anything. To me, it IS ALREADY CLEAR YOU are the Behringer of the Lemur small world of developers, a mere copycat who wants to play the smart ass and, idiotically, thinks "nobody is going to notice".

You said "smartly" customers can make their choice, right?

Well, I made mine. enChord is the actual only great and unique chord design tool that goes well beyond your sad 5% copycat and so it is superior. My call as a customer: enChord is superior to your shameless hack, and you don't have my respect as a customer, I don't respect hacks. Also as a customer, to me you are a sugar-coating bs copycat that does not deserve my money nor the money of my friends. While they prefer to be silent about it, I told you already that I call it like it is and don't give a damn whether you like it or not...

Go ahead and sue me... Oh, but wait!!!.. by the way, you hypocrite, aren't YOU the one complaining about the possibility of getting sued for your copycat habits? Yet now YOU are threatening me with all your "legal" "real life" linguistically linguist linguistic rhetoric?

**** YOU hypocrite. OK like this? Or do you need it any clearer?


Now, don't get so drama-queenish about what you shamelessly did. If Tonespace, Korg or Avantgarde Sound burn your behringerish ass, it is their choice not mine. But as a Lemur user for a LOOONG time, I don't find it funny a sugar-coating hypocrite like you wants to play the smart ass at the expense of our community, then call our community library "mediocre", etc.

[Softcore]

@Mat

I think, reading in a rush, you missed the point of m127 when he stated he's going to release Sequenzomat lol.....

Anyways, just chimed in again in the thread to let you know I have been enjoying Sequencomat Lite indeed - it is a nice sequencer. I would be intrigued to buy the full version too, just to support you as a developer (I dont particularly "need" the extra features) but without wanting to criticize your pricing policy (its your right to charge whatever you think for your work) I simply cannot justify 100 euros for a Lemur - max/MSP combined application. With all respect to your work of course, thats only my personal opinion, and one should also bare in mind the differences in incomes of each country to better understand anyone's judgement on pricing - and I dont want to start an argument on this really.

The fact of course that there is a Lite version adds up to the respect...

[m127]

Not sure if it was a joke from m127 to release SequenZomat for free.

Of course I was kidding, buddy.
If you have a fan since the JM days here, that's me.
I would NEVER **** you up like that. I am a man of honor. Big old style fan here .

On the contrary, if anybody does, just let me know to see if I can help. I could be a witness or whatever. I downloaded your work many times to learn more about the Lemur environment, and I happen to keep all versions of everything.

With that "SequenZoMat release" comment, I was just putting in perspective how we could just destroy someone's contributions and efforts so easily in detriment of OUR OWN interest as a community. We all know the advanced devs here are only a few, somehow they keep contributing so far, but I would not be surprised you would not want to do that anymore if I were to **** you up like that, would you?

Regretfully, some here feel "entitled" or "justified" to do just that, and they affect the community and its potential as a whole. I have seen many templates clearly inspired by SequencoMat and enChord and ABreakpoint. It is just pathetic some of them do not even have the delicacy to acknowledge their "inspiration" and "originality"... I mean, really? **** that forever.

Just to say it: Lite version is open source, I even commented most parts, so I would appreciate others developing further and share.... (released CC, non commercial) but full license is not open in that way.

And that's fair. I asked enChord's dev about this because I wanted to modify enChord to my personal needs. He said I was allowed to further customized it as per the license but not share these personalized work, but then, guess what? He HELPED me customize it to my needs! That's more than fair, and I definitely will not share anything, simply OUT OF RESPECT for someone who created a very innovative tool that I could get for a few coins, and then helped me personalize it, AND in the process made me a better Lemur programmer... Man, really? Come on!

We need advanced devs. We want to cherish them. But of course, we want advanced devs who also act honorably, we don't need nor want behringers here.

I am a nice and friendly person, but if anyone fucks my baby I can turn really bad.
That said, I am out gain to the beach...
mat

All the power to you, Mat!

Still, whenever someone tries to **** with your baby, let them do so, say nothing, and let their copycat grow and grow, just so that when you burn their sorry brain-dry asses it hurts them more, and your damage repair compensation is bigger.

As clearly found everywhere, intellectual copyright work becomes the property of the author as soon as it is functional and created and/or published.

No fucking way around it.

So just relax, and enjoy the beach!

[artsUNMUTED]

@m127

I really can't argue with such advanced logic "it generates chords so it is a copycat" so I just give up. Call me Behringer or whatever - I really don't care. And I don't need your money. But in the place I live before you call somebody a thief you have to have more solid evidence and also there is a presumption of innocence. You haven't proven anything. I have no more words for you. But I am sure you will have to have your last or many. Good luck.

[Joe Soap]

So let's say, as a hypothetical, I purchase enChord or qbEdit . . . Liine update Lemur and introduce bugs or regressions that adversely affect the function of my shiny new template.

What is my redress?

[artsUNMUTED]

@Joe

Something like that have already happened during the retina transition - the update screwed visual sugar bs in my templates - and the text and other elements looked awful on iPad 1. I informed the users and I was ready to issue separate versions for iPad 1 - fortunately Liine fixed it.

But yes, it is quite possible something like that can happen in the future. I would do all my best to rewrite the code to accommodate the change. If it is not possible and the template failed to work as advertised, I would give you a full refund. Firstly, Lemur templates have marginal impact on my income... secondly, I want to be fair even though it is not really my fault. I had about 10 cases of people who bought my templates not realizing they need Liine Lemur (despite clear information in the store) - they got full refund even though I was not obliged to do this. I am trying to be fair - of course apart from the moments I am copycating others' projects.

[Joe Soap]

Sounds good.

But since I only purchased Lemur to run qbEdit, do you also undertake to refund me the cost of the "runtime" also? Or am I now stuck with the cost of Lemur?