commercial templates bad for the community?

[youme3]

That being the case then you all owe me £10 for LPad.
With the proceeds ill buy live 9 and push......Not holding by breath.
Guess ill just have to wait for the very free live kontrol2

I am looking forward to your first commercial template then

[Joe Soap]

I'm just puzzled by what Traxus so has against passive-aggression.

It's because it's gay, right???

Anyway, I think the Modules section of the forum is probably the best avenue for those of us who prefer a bottom-up approach to a trickle-down one for the platform. I think some of us have been around long enough to know which is the more beneficial to the host organism.

Whereas contacting Serato and / or Avid / Steinberg-Yamaha Legal would definitely clear up some of the trademark / copyright / licensing issues these commercial efforts are, by their nature, encroaching upon.

Changed my mind about offering a better company name for unMUTED - and in keeping with his chosen theme of classicist / orchestral . . . ladies and gentlemen I give you . . .

"Soloist"

[Traxus]

Hi
Just wanted to make sure everyone knows this is just my personal thoughts. I'm not actually connected with Liine as a company and am just doing moderation on forum.

That was generally my impression, hence the delicate wording. I tend to agree with you, there is room, if not a need for both avenues.

That being the case then you all owe me £10 for LPad.
With the proceeds ill buy live 9 and push......Not holding by breath.
Guess ill just have to wait for the very free live kontrol2

$15 US is a bit steep, I might pay that, $10 and I wouldn't think twice we're I on the market for such functionality. No, don't hold your breath, but do form a small company and write off new gear on your taxes, you've got the talent, you just need the revenue to justify it. (Not sure what the UK setup is but I'm sure there is something akin to a US LLC).

When I made the Ableton 4 Channel DJ template, I knew all along that it would be a freebie (even before I realized the monumental suck-age of EQ3 and stumbled upon softcore's solutions via EQ8). Looking at it now, I think about how much I would pay for it, $5 seems a bit steep, $3 is about the point I'd impulse buy it. I got a bit frustrated with the whole filter setup, namely the master filter which will control both, as well as the "1 2 3 4" buttons allow you to select which channel either filter is applied to, since these controls are hidden when the filters are active. So, it was a pain in the butt, but nothing monumental or ground breaking enough to expect money for.

Whereas contacting Serato and / or Avid / Steinberg-Yamaha Legal would definitely clear up some of the trademark / copyright / licensing issues these commercial efforts are, by their nature, encroaching upon.

I considered this, you're allowed to sell aftermarket parts for cars and other products, these templates should fall under the same umbrella.

I'm just puzzled by what Traxus so has against passive-aggression.

It's because it's gay, right???

Because, as a moderator for several other forums, one of which has 6,500 users, and another nearly 20,000, I know that it is completely unhealthy for the community in the long term. It's *generally* a method of needling someone to draw out a hostile response which will in turn destroy the thread, and if left long enough destroy a forum whence people get tired overwhelmed by the arguments that berate every other thread. It is, in your words, not beneficial for the host organism.

Changed my mind about offering a better company name for unMUTED - and in keeping with his chosen theme of classicist / orchestral . . . ladies and gentlemen I give you . . .

"Soloist"

[Joe Soap]

Quite . . .

Where do you stand on self-awareness?

[artsUNMUTED]

@Joe Soap
Thanks for the name - it was on my long list - I discarded it because there were no free domains to register. It is not so easy with the names, really.

Now back to Lemur...
Today I got an email from a well known French composer who bought reCHORDER but he thought it was a stand-alone app (despite there is a disclaimer in my store). He was angry at me because he didn't realize it is a Lemur project - he said that he didn't want to go through setup hell and he was not even thinking about buying Lemur. I don't know where he learnt this. I offered him a refund - he hasn't written back yet.

Anyway, the thing is that people have got this idea of Lemur being for geeks etc. And that's why we really need some ready-to-use projects that would change this reputation. The more good content, the more people will want to take the risk.

Despite this unpleasant surprise I somehow felt good that rC can be visually taken as a stand alone app - I really did my best to make it as visually and ergonomically appealing as possible.

[Joe Soap]

The "setup hell" is a (hardware) platform issue, I genuinely fail to see where commercial templates can do anything to alleviate the problem.

This argument is disingenuous, at best.

[lABl]

to be honest I don't think the payed templates (I am not saying it for you or anyone selling templates, please don't take me wrong) is the best way to "catch" new users to the lemur world and to clear the idea of "you need to be a computer geek to use Lemur", applies the same to Reaktor, Max, PD,Processing, etc, there are learning curves, same way if you study "Music", Graphic Design, etc.

People already pay 50$ for the App, and I would expect some good library of resources, good manual and examples of what you can do with lemur, and of course a good forum where you get some help (I can't help with that too much, because my english is a JOKE) sharing things is my best way to contribute with new users.

What are good examples? difficult to say, every of us have different preferences/tastes. IMHO lemur is not focused for musicians only , there are people using it for video, djing, light works, sound design/interaction (I do use it for that), creating editors for hardware synths, etc. I think lemur is not what "you see", but "what you can do", it's a customizable environment, if you don't like the library content, you can create your stuff, that is the same when buying a synth and you don't like the sound presets, make yours, or Buy from the others. But if you're really interested in create your sounds, songs, lemur, playing the triangle, you need to spend time to learn. If you look only to play with pre-made stuff so buying is a great option.

Peace,
AB

[artsUNMUTED]

My point is: lots of people are put off Lemur because of the complexity and setup but if they find something that really meet their needs, they may be more willing to take the risk. And that is my point - it can be free or payable content - no difference - the point is: diversity and availability of good content.

Tell me in which aspect this argument is disingenuous (I had to check this work in the dictionary:-).

[lABl]

- the point is: diversity and availability of good content..

Don't know if you're replying to me, but what I want to say, that is very subjetive, what maybe is good content for you can be a total useless thing for me in lemur world, and viceversa.

cheers,

[Traxus]

Quite . . .

Where do you stand on self-awareness?

Firm enough to grab a complication by the horns whilst attempting to exhaust and diffuse it rather than escalating it. That is all. Lay off the one liners and name calling man, that is far more damaging to our acclaimed host organism than the sale of a few templates; a practice that many have argued quite convincingly in favor of under the right circumstances.

Today I got an email from a well known French composer who bought reCHORDER but he thought it was a stand-alone app (despite there is a disclaimer in my store). He was angry at me because he didn't realize it is a Lemur project - he said that he didn't want to go through setup hell and he was not even thinking about buying Lemur. I don't know where he learnt this. I offered him a refund - he hasn't written back yet.

That's too bad, you would think that not having it in the iOS store would clue him in but what can you do, refund is probably the best way to go but it is tough as you aren't going to effectively revoke the licence or anything. Part of the challenge to overcome, and concurrently the reason this is not a day job is that we are already a niche market. $500 in an iPad and another $50 into an app, and that is before whatever software you're connecting to.

Anyway, the thing is that people have got this idea of Lemur being for geeks etc. And that's why we really need some ready-to-use projects that would change this reputation. The more good content, the more people will want to take the risk.

That seems to be a common battle cry for anyone with a commercial template. The app would benefit from a host of pre-packaged templates catered to specific software (impending Live control 2 is a start). At the same time, simply offering up something one of us users busted our balls and built from scratch to help boost their revenues is hardly fair, which I guess is *sort of* what they do when citing the user-library/community when selling the app but I wouldn't contend that it is parasitic, especially because some of the developers are on hand to help you out if you really need them. I see it as a bit more symbiotic than that, it's just that the board generally has enough momentum that they don't need to step in.

The "setup hell" is a (hardware) platform issue, I genuinely fail to see where commercial templates can do anything to alleviate the problem.

This argument is disingenuous, at best.

I'm a bit confused as to the definition of setup hell, could be anything from lemur scripting/programming (which the template does alleviate), or the application of the template to the software, which if you're providing a paid template for a specific software, you should include the mapping file if the program has such a thing. That seems like a no brainer if it is software specific.

to be honest I don't think the payed templates (I am not saying it for you or anyone selling templates, please don't take me wrong) is the best way to "catch" new users to the lemur world and to clear the idea of "you need to be a computer geek to use Lemur", applies the same to Reaktor, Max, PD,Processing, etc, there are learning curves, same way if you study "Music", Graphic Design, etc.

People already pay 50$ for the App, and I would expect some good library of resources, good manual and examples of what you can do with lemur, and of course a good forum where you get some help (I can't help with that too much, because my english is a JOKE) sharing things is my best way to contribute with new users.

That sort of speaks to my prior idea about pre packaged templates that serve a purpose rather than an example. What we contend is that, paid templates are potentially more inciting for other developers who will be able to further display the reach of the platform, paid or not.