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Sequencomat on Lemur for iPad?
Started by tomoe97 on .
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For the moment I got enough beta testers, thanks to all.
We will see where we will get, but in common everything is working!
I posted a new video:
http://youtu.be/KEEHnq5c4zY
It shows Sequencomat lite + full version running parallel via WiFi network (changing channel of my router helped a lot to get visual feedback more fluently). Works
Till now there are 2 issues with Sequencomat on Ipad (same with lite and full version):
- The Knob object is somehow broken in Lemur 3.0. I use knobs in endless mode for entering bpm and position. Unfortunately the Endless Knobs always fall back to value 0 if touched, which is no good idea for bpm.
So for the moment you have to set the tempo in once at the beginning. You can make small changes by using the BPMfine knob later.... If Liine can not fix that, I will enter another control typ for bpm and position.
- The bidirectional OSC communication between Lemur and maxpatch was designed for ethernet connection on its original hardware Lemur. The full version of SequencomatV3 sends about 4000 values forth and back in realtime. On original Lemur that was never a problem (while internal 4MB memory sure was!), on Ipad it clearly depends on your network settings. Ad hoc works fine. But even wifi can work as shown in the video.... However: If lite version works, full versions works also and you can even run both.
I will wait for further feedback of my beta testers.
Any feedback about lite version here is also appreciated.
Kind regards
Mat
We will see where we will get, but in common everything is working!
I posted a new video:
http://youtu.be/KEEHnq5c4zY
It shows Sequencomat lite + full version running parallel via WiFi network (changing channel of my router helped a lot to get visual feedback more fluently). Works
Till now there are 2 issues with Sequencomat on Ipad (same with lite and full version):
- The Knob object is somehow broken in Lemur 3.0. I use knobs in endless mode for entering bpm and position. Unfortunately the Endless Knobs always fall back to value 0 if touched, which is no good idea for bpm.
So for the moment you have to set the tempo in once at the beginning. You can make small changes by using the BPMfine knob later.... If Liine can not fix that, I will enter another control typ for bpm and position. - The bidirectional OSC communication between Lemur and maxpatch was designed for ethernet connection on its original hardware Lemur. The full version of SequencomatV3 sends about 4000 values forth and back in realtime. On original Lemur that was never a problem (while internal 4MB memory sure was!), on Ipad it clearly depends on your network settings. Ad hoc works fine. But even wifi can work as shown in the video.... However: If lite version works, full versions works also and you can even run both.
I will wait for further feedback of my beta testers.
Any feedback about lite version here is also appreciated.
Kind regards
Mat
Hi mat. First of all, great work on your all your endeavours.
Question: Do you have any videos of the ipad version controlling any external gear with a coreMIDI interface?
Question: Do you have any videos of the ipad version controlling any external gear with a coreMIDI interface?
Hey vst,
thanks for the compliment
About your question:
Unfortunately Sequencomat will not work with iRigs coreMidi or any other Midi interface directly hooked up to the Ipad.
The reason for that is, that the Lemur template doesn´t send the Midinotes and ControlChange. It "just" makes the bidirectional OSC communication to the maxpatch on your computer (Mac or PC). The maxpatch sends all Midi! So - you need a computer in between...even if you just use it for running the maxpatch. On the other side the maxpatch can send Midi to any Midiport installed on your system (internal or external, if your computer got a Midiinterface).
Thats a pitty, I know. While the original Lemur always needed a computer to work, now on Ipad you can cut that computer and send direct from your Ipad to hardware. But that only works for modules that are done completely on Lemur (like most modules, including most of mine). However, Sequencomat (and all other stepsequencers from a certain point of complexity on) can not be done on Lemur only: It is not only that programming language in Lemur can not cover all needed functions (or at least they are difficult to programm and keep the restricted memory in mind) it is also that the Lemur is not tight enough for such complex tools. That was the point - 3 years ago - where I realized that I have to learn max and my personal journey started which resulted in Sequencomat.
So for direct Ipad => hardware you have to use one of the stepsequencers that are done without max or Pure Data (there are some in the user area.... and although they do not go such into deep like Sequencomat, they are great and usefull tools. For stepmodulation of ControlChange you can use my "Modumat" for instance)
All the best
mat
thanks for the compliment
About your question:
Unfortunately Sequencomat will not work with iRigs coreMidi or any other Midi interface directly hooked up to the Ipad.
The reason for that is, that the Lemur template doesn´t send the Midinotes and ControlChange. It "just" makes the bidirectional OSC communication to the maxpatch on your computer (Mac or PC). The maxpatch sends all Midi! So - you need a computer in between...even if you just use it for running the maxpatch. On the other side the maxpatch can send Midi to any Midiport installed on your system (internal or external, if your computer got a Midiinterface).
Thats a pitty, I know. While the original Lemur always needed a computer to work, now on Ipad you can cut that computer and send direct from your Ipad to hardware. But that only works for modules that are done completely on Lemur (like most modules, including most of mine). However, Sequencomat (and all other stepsequencers from a certain point of complexity on) can not be done on Lemur only: It is not only that programming language in Lemur can not cover all needed functions (or at least they are difficult to programm and keep the restricted memory in mind) it is also that the Lemur is not tight enough for such complex tools. That was the point - 3 years ago - where I realized that I have to learn max and my personal journey started which resulted in Sequencomat.
So for direct Ipad => hardware you have to use one of the stepsequencers that are done without max or Pure Data (there are some in the user area.... and although they do not go such into deep like Sequencomat, they are great and usefull tools. For stepmodulation of ControlChange you can use my "Modumat" for instance)
All the best
mat
Dear Lemurians,
I´ve updated the SequencomatV3lite in the user area: http://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/88/
See complete manual here: http://www.tonvibration.de/SequencomatV3.html
The zip contains now Ipad and legacy resolution (modules) and one maxpatch working with both.
There is also a minor bugfix in the maxpatch: Previous version does not update Swing knob when loading a new set - max got the new value, but you do not see it on the Lemur, which could lead to working with swing without getting that indicated... especially bad if the maxpatch was set to a swing of 23msec by default, like it was the case in the zip I once uploaded here in that thread. Now swing is set to 0 by default and if you load a set the swing knob is updated.
The knob problem is still there: Endless knobs for bpm control send 0 everytime they are touched, so set the bpm at once in the beginning (before pressing play). You can do minor changes with the BPMfine knob later...
I decided not to change the bpm control for some reasons:
- Liine says they will fix the knob-object bugs in Lemur v3.0 with the next update, released within the next weeks.
- Although I tried some alternatives last weekend I did not get satisfying results. The endless knobs are the best for fast and exact control that still enables fades in BPM
- I like to keep the maxpatch the same for legacy and Ipad users
That knob problem is the same with the full version. So I wait for that bugfix until "offical" release. However, if you don´t care about that knobs full version "SequencomatV3.3" is also available. All other things work and are tested from my beta testers - thanks again. If you are interested in full version (and have tested lite version on your system before!), drop me a mail, I send paypal request in return.
All the best
and enjoy stepsequencing
mat
I´ve updated the SequencomatV3lite in the user area: http://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/88/
See complete manual here: http://www.tonvibration.de/SequencomatV3.html
The zip contains now Ipad and legacy resolution (modules) and one maxpatch working with both.
There is also a minor bugfix in the maxpatch: Previous version does not update Swing knob when loading a new set - max got the new value, but you do not see it on the Lemur, which could lead to working with swing without getting that indicated... especially bad if the maxpatch was set to a swing of 23msec by default, like it was the case in the zip I once uploaded here in that thread. Now swing is set to 0 by default and if you load a set the swing knob is updated.
The knob problem is still there: Endless knobs for bpm control send 0 everytime they are touched, so set the bpm at once in the beginning (before pressing play). You can do minor changes with the BPMfine knob later...
I decided not to change the bpm control for some reasons:
- Liine says they will fix the knob-object bugs in Lemur v3.0 with the next update, released within the next weeks.
- Although I tried some alternatives last weekend I did not get satisfying results. The endless knobs are the best for fast and exact control that still enables fades in BPM
- I like to keep the maxpatch the same for legacy and Ipad users
That knob problem is the same with the full version. So I wait for that bugfix until "offical" release. However, if you don´t care about that knobs full version "SequencomatV3.3" is also available. All other things work and are tested from my beta testers - thanks again. If you are interested in full version (and have tested lite version on your system before!), drop me a mail, I send paypal request in return.
All the best
and enjoy stepsequencing
mat
Thanks
Just wondering if the iPad 02 project needs the Sequencer page updated as well?
Thanks for all your work . . .
Cheers
MM
Just wondering if the iPad 02 project needs the Sequencer page updated as well?
Thanks for all your work . . .
Cheers
MM
Had a chance to try the Lite Version.
Man its absolutely fantastic. Its intuitive and flawless.
Only one thing I cannot get to work and this to change the midi clock sync source. As a midi master works ok. But whenever I try to change to the midi slave option or to the rewire slave in Live I can't make. The aequencer remains stuck although I've setup my midiports OK.
Does anyone else have this problem?
Anyway this patch has freed me from trying to make some patches in Lemur which are very difficult or impossible to make.
Very good Mat, well done and thank you!!.
Now about the pricing of the V3.3 option I think it probably deserves asking that amount of money taking into account all the work you've done in structuring the max patch and the design in Lemur.
However now this app is directed to a different set of people than those that spent thousounds of dollars to get the JazzMutant Lemur hardware. Consequently I think some 'ranging' should take place regarding the price variable. I also believe that you would make much more money if you asked for half of the price for ipad users and even more if fourth of the price.
All this is coming contructively and please don't take it in the wrong. I know anybody is taking their own decisions on how to market a product. All the above are suggestions and speculation.
Thanks again for your work Mat!!
Man its absolutely fantastic. Its intuitive and flawless.
Only one thing I cannot get to work and this to change the midi clock sync source. As a midi master works ok. But whenever I try to change to the midi slave option or to the rewire slave in Live I can't make. The aequencer remains stuck although I've setup my midiports OK.
Does anyone else have this problem?
Anyway this patch has freed me from trying to make some patches in Lemur which are very difficult or impossible to make.
Very good Mat, well done and thank you!!.
Now about the pricing of the V3.3 option I think it probably deserves asking that amount of money taking into account all the work you've done in structuring the max patch and the design in Lemur.
However now this app is directed to a different set of people than those that spent thousounds of dollars to get the JazzMutant Lemur hardware. Consequently I think some 'ranging' should take place regarding the price variable. I also believe that you would make much more money if you asked for half of the price for ipad users and even more if fourth of the price.
All this is coming contructively and please don't take it in the wrong. I know anybody is taking their own decisions on how to market a product. All the above are suggestions and speculation.
Thanks again for your work Mat!!
@ Macciza
The Lemur Interface needs no changes, just use the new maxpatch (it is named the same, so delete old one, put new one in same folder)
The Ipad02 project was just a demo, my 2nd try on Ipad... I will delete it, cause all users can build it on their own, because meanwhile I have updated those modules in the user area. (and will continue to update other ones...)
@kratft
rewireslave:
open rewire host before opening max. start maxpatch. choose "ad rewire". activate ("X"). should work.
midislave:
make sure you have activated a sync OUT in your daw. choose that midiport for receiving clock from. should also work.
important advices:
never use same midiport for clock in and out! it will result in a midi feedback loop - crash!
Sequencomat uses a MidiBeatClock (MBC) not a MidiTimeCode (MTC). Normally MBC works with all setups, is pretty basic and stable. But some programms need MTC....
@pricing
I will keep the price. I do understand your arguments.... and if it just would be pressing a button to get that patch to a new user you would be right. It is not. Each patch is personalised. Why? Mainley because of copyright protection. But more important than that 10minutes work is the support I give. Most users get guided through the manual with no problem, but some users need really to be taken by their hands and explained what a midiport is. Thats ok for me. Thats what they pay for! And believe me, some of those need hours and hours to get through... so in a middle value that 99,- is fair for support.
But more important than these all: 99,- is a fair price for a sequencer with that functions - compared with other software stepsequencers.
And don´t forget: 50,- Euro payback for a video within first 7 days!
Actually I don´t care if I only sell once a month as long as my users are satisfied.
I hope you understand....
all the best
mat
The Lemur Interface needs no changes, just use the new maxpatch (it is named the same, so delete old one, put new one in same folder)
The Ipad02 project was just a demo, my 2nd try on Ipad... I will delete it, cause all users can build it on their own, because meanwhile I have updated those modules in the user area. (and will continue to update other ones...)
@kratft
rewireslave:
open rewire host before opening max. start maxpatch. choose "ad rewire". activate ("X"). should work.
midislave:
make sure you have activated a sync OUT in your daw. choose that midiport for receiving clock from. should also work.
important advices:
never use same midiport for clock in and out! it will result in a midi feedback loop - crash!
Sequencomat uses a MidiBeatClock (MBC) not a MidiTimeCode (MTC). Normally MBC works with all setups, is pretty basic and stable. But some programms need MTC....
@pricing
I will keep the price. I do understand your arguments.... and if it just would be pressing a button to get that patch to a new user you would be right. It is not. Each patch is personalised. Why? Mainley because of copyright protection. But more important than that 10minutes work is the support I give. Most users get guided through the manual with no problem, but some users need really to be taken by their hands and explained what a midiport is. Thats ok for me. Thats what they pay for! And believe me, some of those need hours and hours to get through... so in a middle value that 99,- is fair for support.
But more important than these all: 99,- is a fair price for a sequencer with that functions - compared with other software stepsequencers.
And don´t forget: 50,- Euro payback for a video within first 7 days!
Actually I don´t care if I only sell once a month as long as my users are satisfied.
I hope you understand....
all the best
mat
Also, Lemur works well with apps like MidiBridge which allow you to direct midi information in a lot of creative ways. I use lemur to control many other apps on the same iPad.
Information goes to the iPad but not from it. Where can I find my iPad IP adress? Can't wait to make music with this super seq...
Thanx!!!
Thanx!!!
lemur=>max
- open settings in liines lemur app on iPad
- use OSCtarget1 (have to be created first time!)
- enter your computer IP and a port
max=>lemur
- enter your Ipad IP*
- enter same port as on OSCtarget1
*(see iPad IP while syncing jazzeditor to app - mentioned behind your iPads name)
cheers*mat
- open settings in liines lemur app on iPad
- use OSCtarget1 (have to be created first time!)
- enter your computer IP and a port
max=>lemur
- enter your Ipad IP*
- enter same port as on OSCtarget1
*(see iPad IP while syncing jazzeditor to app - mentioned behind your iPads name)
cheers*mat
It's working and I love it! Thanx for this super sequencer! I think I'm going to buy the full
version for the probability and delay tabs...
How do you make a two (or more) mesures pattern?
Thanx
JS
version for the probability and delay tabs...
How do you make a two (or more) mesures pattern?
Thanx
JS
I added a new control surface to the sequencomat package:
[img]http://www.tonvibration.de/V3pics/v3lite_flip.jpg[/img]
I flipped the controls, so now function choice is at the top (in line with interface choice on lemur 3.0) and stepvalues are also on the top also....
On original hardware Lemur the palm of my hands always rest at its massiv steel body, and function and range of stepvalues were in a good reachable position. Now on Ipad I tend more to hold the sequencer (and the whole lemur) in my hand, one at the bottom and so the hand free for control got better touch on the top part - position of range e.g. feels better for me if on top. However, Zip contains normal and flipped version (and also normal legacy resolution), so free to choose
@ jenz
Enjoy * mat
[img]http://www.tonvibration.de/V3pics/v3lite_flip.jpg[/img]
I flipped the controls, so now function choice is at the top (in line with interface choice on lemur 3.0) and stepvalues are also on the top also....
On original hardware Lemur the palm of my hands always rest at its massiv steel body, and function and range of stepvalues were in a good reachable position. Now on Ipad I tend more to hold the sequencer (and the whole lemur) in my hand, one at the bottom and so the hand free for control got better touch on the top part - position of range e.g. feels better for me if on top. However, Zip contains normal and flipped version (and also normal legacy resolution), so free to choose
@ jenz
Sequencomat got maximium 16 steps per pattern. You can activate followfunctions, so at the end of the pattern e.g. the next starts, but that is only in full version (I call it "auto pattern chain")... Is that what you ment?How do you make a two (or more) mesures pattern?
Enjoy * mat
Yep!
If I switch it to pattern chain all of the patterns in the same bank will loop?
If I want a two bars phrase, can I decide that only two patterns will loop?
I guess I have a 3rd reason to buy the full version... ;O)
Thanx
If I switch it to pattern chain all of the patterns in the same bank will loop?
If I want a two bars phrase, can I decide that only two patterns will loop?
I guess I have a 3rd reason to buy the full version... ;O)
Thanx
Forget my questions, I found my answers in your user manual.
Are you going to implement the Sequencomat with the possibility to arrange your scales settings directly in the lemur?
Thanx
Are you going to implement the Sequencomat with the possibility to arrange your scales settings directly in the lemur?
Thanx
Hi,
i just got my pro version and it is running really good since i figured why i couldnt get a proper connection in an adhoc network.
Computer and Ipad was connected fine in the adhoc network but the osctest-button in sequencomat wasnt working and therefore the whole thing wasnt running.
In the end it was the firewall blocking incoming data from the ipad because the network is an open/public one and different rules apply there. I had to allow 2 Max entries to pass the firewall. Now it is running considerably tight with very rare hickups when i use the mouse scrolling in Reason but nothing compared to the normal wifi connection.
I am still a bit worried because the best security i can get on the adhoc network is WEP. WPA doesnt work with the ipad as far as i have learned so far.
Anyone knows how to configure the adhoc to make it reasonably safe? Or even how to make wpa work?
Anyways great work, worth the money, i am happy
Cheers
Markus
P.S.: Are more tracks possible in the future? 16 would be so nice
i just got my pro version and it is running really good since i figured why i couldnt get a proper connection in an adhoc network.
Computer and Ipad was connected fine in the adhoc network but the osctest-button in sequencomat wasnt working and therefore the whole thing wasnt running.
In the end it was the firewall blocking incoming data from the ipad because the network is an open/public one and different rules apply there. I had to allow 2 Max entries to pass the firewall. Now it is running considerably tight with very rare hickups when i use the mouse scrolling in Reason but nothing compared to the normal wifi connection.
I am still a bit worried because the best security i can get on the adhoc network is WEP. WPA doesnt work with the ipad as far as i have learned so far.
Anyone knows how to configure the adhoc to make it reasonably safe? Or even how to make wpa work?
Anyways great work, worth the money, i am happy
Cheers
Markus
P.S.: Are more tracks possible in the future? 16 would be so nice
Any info on the possibility to have 16 tracks? Also a second cc for a track would be cool.
@ electrofux
sorry for late reply, bussy week
Running 2 sequencomat full version is - unfortunately - not possible. The problem is based on the paths that include container names for object, they all have to be changed for a parallel version. Even more: the patch also sends many variables inside from A to B, these names have to be different in a parallel version too. At all it is a big deal. If I creat(ed) a module new, I always change all adresses to make them work parallel. But SequencomatV3 full is such a big patch.... However: running lite version and full version together is possible! (I added a "l" behind all pathways and variables when I created it)
about connection:
nice you posted it. and normally ad-hoc is the best connection.
I had problems with adhoc (seems my PC does not like my iPad) so I connected via Wlan over my router. Bad idea first, because to slow. But then I changed the channel of my router and now everything works really fine! Background: I see over 20 Wlans from my neighbors, so there is a lot of traffic. channel can be the bottleneck. I switched to channel 13 and deactivate automatic channel - seems noone else is using channel 13
all the best
mat
sorry for late reply, bussy week
Running 2 sequencomat full version is - unfortunately - not possible. The problem is based on the paths that include container names for object, they all have to be changed for a parallel version. Even more: the patch also sends many variables inside from A to B, these names have to be different in a parallel version too. At all it is a big deal. If I creat(ed) a module new, I always change all adresses to make them work parallel. But SequencomatV3 full is such a big patch.... However: running lite version and full version together is possible! (I added a "l" behind all pathways and variables when I created it)
about connection:
nice you posted it. and normally ad-hoc is the best connection.
I had problems with adhoc (seems my PC does not like my iPad) so I connected via Wlan over my router. Bad idea first, because to slow. But then I changed the channel of my router and now everything works really fine! Background: I see over 20 Wlans from my neighbors, so there is a lot of traffic. channel can be the bottleneck. I switched to channel 13 and deactivate automatic channel - seems noone else is using channel 13
all the best
mat
what i found works best for me atm is adhoc via connectify. It is still wep but it is quicker to setup and you see who connects. I have tried so many different setups and this came out on top. But i give the channel switching a try since i have loads of wlans around.
Have you thought about adding a couple of track to the full version (maybe made accessable by wipe-scrolling up and down).
The lite/full combo is somehow workable but when switching patterns obviously not very ergonomic.
Have you thought about adding a couple of track to the full version (maybe made accessable by wipe-scrolling up and down).
The lite/full combo is somehow workable but when switching patterns obviously not very ergonomic.
Sure, I have thought about making full version a 12 or 16 track... there are 2 (potential) problems:
- technically it would be no big deal to add some tracks in max. But I am not sure if performance will still be fast enough. Actually I wonder with every update that it is still working... cause the maxpatch got now over 5 MB. That is pretty heavy! (I know no other maxpatch which is even nearly so big)... But if lite and full can run together it might also work with more tracks on full version
- Scrolling through tracks is also technical no problem, but I am not sure if I like it. In Sequencomat is a strong principle: You hear what you see. If I scroll i might hear some tracks I don´t see. Ergonomically this is a problem....
However - I will think about with next update!
Actually I once thought 3.3 would be the last version. It is a big patch, working proper, and most functions I had in mind are realised. But new iPad Lemur pushed meback to scripting - so I think of an update (will be free for all users). Anyway - this will take months... I got a fulltime job at the moment... but just some ideas in my mind (no guaranty it will be in next update!):
- mark already saved pattern slots by highlighting them
- integrate programm change
- "couple" tracks: so you can make 2x32 and 4x16 or whatever
- add more tracks
what would be most interesting for users?
cheers*mat
- technically it would be no big deal to add some tracks in max. But I am not sure if performance will still be fast enough. Actually I wonder with every update that it is still working... cause the maxpatch got now over 5 MB. That is pretty heavy! (I know no other maxpatch which is even nearly so big)... But if lite and full can run together it might also work with more tracks on full version
- Scrolling through tracks is also technical no problem, but I am not sure if I like it. In Sequencomat is a strong principle: You hear what you see. If I scroll i might hear some tracks I don´t see. Ergonomically this is a problem....
However - I will think about with next update!
Actually I once thought 3.3 would be the last version. It is a big patch, working proper, and most functions I had in mind are realised. But new iPad Lemur pushed meback to scripting - so I think of an update (will be free for all users). Anyway - this will take months... I got a fulltime job at the moment... but just some ideas in my mind (no guaranty it will be in next update!):
- mark already saved pattern slots by highlighting them
- integrate programm change
- "couple" tracks: so you can make 2x32 and 4x16 or whatever
- add more tracks
what would be most interesting for users?
cheers*mat
Those two would be totally awesome (plus a second cc to modulate- crazy step modulation is one of the coolest things of step sequencers).mat wrote: - "couple" tracks: so you can make 2x32 and 4x16 or whatever
- add more tracks
Coupling tracks especially is a very nice idea